Swindon Music

No. Unless the analogue to digital conversion is done so badly so as to introduce aliasing artifacts then digital transfer introduces nothing that you would then hear and could call 'digital sounding'. There may well be a different tonality but that's because the digital transfer is a higher fidelity than analogue tape or vinyl : if tape performance were improved (from a fidelity point of view) it'd sound like CD - you might still prefer old tape or vinyl, but the difference isn't down to the technology used.

I also agree that some of the L6 stuff can get ropey when up loud, but so do many solid state (analogue) amps so again, you can't point your finger at the digital aspect there (and in any case most (all?) of them use analogue power sections..)

Can the aliasing artifacts term be used for audio-dynamics as Ive only ever heard it used when talking about imaging algorithms?
Anyway I use the word 'digital sounding' because in my opinion its what people would understand what Im getting at, the sound is sounds false, replicated but not so much a distored sound which is what you get with solid state when cranked, there is a differnce in whats wrong.

Im not knocking the digital revolution, people crave after the old anlogue synths (myself included) but in reality I use a digital Yamaha DX11 as my 'vintage' synth because it more reliable, easier to use, more versatile and I can keep the sounds I find but saving them as preset.

I would still think the amount of processing the signal goes through has a hand in making the sound ropey as it happens before you even get to the power amp so I think I'm justified in pointing the finger there but its one of those things down to opinion so I dont mind if you disagree because I could well be wrong!! LOL

yep - in fact that's the perfect analogy (in fact - it's not even that - it's the same ha) . The added complications when the source is audio (or video) is that the processing has to be a bit more powerful as it's done in real-time, and the ear doesn't 'fill in the gaps and smooth out the edges' like the eye* does.



* - ok, the optical parts of the brain, but you get me

Of course it refers to curve so its easily applied to audio, just never crossed my mind. The processor would be subject to latency I suppose so it can work out the algorithms so that all makes sense.

Nice little titbit of information that, thanks! :D

How do you spell pedantic?

Actually, that looks about right

LOL

Im one of those people that likes to know how things work and why. Some people are happy to turn a key and the engine starts up, while I want to know how the key fits, how it turns the motor and then how the fuel flows, the spark is timed to ignite the explosions and turn the flywheel... yes Im a bit sad :D

and you can't drive!

line squeal

Isn't it kinda simple though? Valve amplifers.. when cranked up the distortion is harmonic with itself.. just because of the way the valves break up when pushed? and transistors (solid state) amplifiers dont give out harmonic distorsion but just total distorsion?

because i wasnt sure whether i was right i googled this up.

"Valve amplifiers distort in a different way from most transistors. Valves tend to produce 2nd harmonic distortions; whereas, transistors tend to produce 3rd harmonic distortion. Obviously, whichever type, we always try to reduce the amount of distortion to a minimum but most amplifiers will under certain circumstances produce a little audible distortion.

There is a big difference in a valve's distortion as apposed to a transistor's. The transistor's 3rd harmonic distortion is quite nasty to the ear. A valve's 2nd harmonic distortion, however, can actually be quite pleasant on the ear but still, it must be kept to a minimum.

Both valve and transistors produce other orders of harmonic distortion, of course. As a general rule, however, valves tend to produce distortion closer to the fundamental frequency whereas transistors can distort well away from the fundamental; in the higher orders. Higher order distortion is closer to signal related hiss although the higher the order, the more likely the distortion will lie outside the normally accepted audible range. "


thus a solid state amp trying to mimick a valve amp is only going to get so close..

That may well be technically true, but the technology's available now in solid state amps to emulate valve amps so closely that they're indistinguishable. I'll bet 90% of guitarists couldn't tell the diffence between a valve and good solid state amp in a blindfolded test.

I have nothing against valve amps per se, but too many guitarists seem to swallow this myth that you will only sound good if you're playing through a valve amp. There's also an obsession with trying to get the "marshall" sound or the "fender" sound or whatever, rather than simply trying to find a sound that you like and that suits what you play, which is a shame. Hendrix broke every rule in the book with his guitar and his gear. Now people spend huge amounts of time and money trying to recreate his sound exactly, which to me runs exactly against his whole iconoclastic approach to music.

Don't forget the significant disadvantages of valve amps - they're big, very heavy, generally more unreliable than solid state amps, need more regular maintanence, incredibly innefficient with electricity, need careful handling, and above all expensive. The guitar amp industry still seems to have an obsession with valves though, so there are very few good quality solid state amps on the market. If you look at bass amp heads there's a huge range of well designed, quality, portable amp heads. Most solid state guitar amp heads are cheap, big, heavy wooden boxes with a few cheap circuits in and a lot of empty space, just because if they don't look like valve amps they won't sell. The reason most valve amps do actually sound better then solid state amps is because they're simply made better, thus perpetuating the myth.

My advice to any guitarist is that if you like the sound of a piece of equipment, then use it, whether it's valve, solid state, expensive, cheap, whatever. By all means listen to advice, but don't let anyone else tell you what's good or bad, try it for yourself.

Oh please.

Go on then - you let me know what it's ok to know about and care about and I'll see if I can be arsed to talk about it.

I actually think it's more a case of being obsessed with the way the gear they have imprinted on sounds and responds.

In the same way that I could give a fig what powers my car (petrol, diesel, electricity, broken ginger biscuits) I'm going to prefer one that performs and responds like a petrol one does, because that's what I'm used to. If the leccy or biscuit powered car delivers that, then it's all good

that's sort of true, but alot of guitarists use fuzz pedals and large amounts of distortion, also tape delays are held in high regard and lots of people love the distortion on the echoes. all of those are high in 3rd order harmonics.
it's more the compression from the valves that makes valve amps more popular than solid state more than the distortion, as lots of people use solid state pedals for distortion, solid state has more headroom and higher fidelity compared to valve guitar amps, which doesn't flatter distortion at all and the whole point of using 12" speakers is purely to make distortion sound nice, valves aren't doing all the work.

hmm

frankly, buscuit powered car? i'm down with that idea provided it didnt run on fig rolls or gariboldi then its a winner.


so surely an all valve amp with pedals to do the job.. just the biscuit? (on the brain now)

not a line 6?!

i would never use a line6 amp because they are mostly awful, even by cheap solid state standards, but yes, if you want to sound as amazing as i do in rag doll girl, then clearly an old marshall jmp and boutique fuzz boxes are the way to go.................


just avoid anything a guitarist has to say about distortion, very few actually undertstand it and then go on about bollocks like harmonics, go buy a synthesizer, then work out how you get from a sine wave to a square wave, because that's actually how distortion works.